How much power to push

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bmcmaster11
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How much power to push

Post by bmcmaster11 »

I just started measuring power on my bike and its producing a number that does not mean much to me. Is there any guidance as to how much power people push? i.e. A pro, A podium age grouper, the average age grouper?

Any thoughts would be great so I can make some sense of what I'm doing.

Thanks
coachboyd
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Re: How much power to push

Post by coachboyd »

One of the things you could try is to do a fitness test. This will give you a fitness ranking (1-10) based on your w/kg.

A fitness ranking of 3 is about a cat 5
A fitness ranking of 5 is about a cat 4
A fitness ranking of 6-7 is about a cat 3 or smebody who just upgraded to a cat 2
A fitness ranking of 8 is a good cat 2
A fitness ranking of 9 is a cat 1 or domestic professional
And a fitness ranking of 10 is a domestic pro and above

Again, these are just guidlines, but this should help you better understand the power you are putting out, and in this sport it's not just about watts. It's about watts per kilogram.
Boyd Johnson
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coachboyd
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Re: How much power to push

Post by coachboyd »

And for a little more clarification, here are the numbers for each fitness test. The fitness test is a 20 minute ALL OUT time trial. You can figure out the watts you need to push by simply multiplying these watts per kilogram numbers by your weight in kilograms, or by your weight in pounds and then dividing the result by 2.2.

Fitness Level.....w/kg Male (20 minute numbers)-w/kg Female (20 minute numbers)
1..........................0-2...............................0-1.5
2........................2.01-2.45........................1.51-2.08
3........................2.46-2.8.........................2.09-2.4
4........................2.81-3.46........................2.41-2.94
5........................3.47-3.8.........................2.95-3.23
6........................3.81-4.25........................3.24-3.62
7........................4.26-4.82........................3.62-4.1
8........................4.83-5.27........................4.11-4.48
9........................5.28-5.75........................4.49-4.86
10.......................5.75+.............................4.87+

So, lets say for example that you are putting out 270 watts for 20 minutes and you weigh 165 pounds. This would mean that you are 75 Kilograms (165/2.2=75). Then, divide the 270 watts by 75 kilograms, and you get 3.6 watts per kilogram. If you are a male, this puts you at a fitness level 5 (a good cat 4 racer, possibly upgrading to a cat 3). If you are a female, this puts you at a fitness level 7 (good cat 3 or a cat 2 cyclist).
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turbomentor
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Re: How much power to push

Post by turbomentor »

I am using an online Triathlon coaching website where we do regular testing of FTP. Our protocol is a little different than the 20 min test administered by the IB. We do 20 mins all out, 2 mins rest interval then 20 mins all out. We take the NP for that 42 min segment and that is our FTP. I am not so good! Being a "heavier" rider doesn't help but I'm already about 5% BF so not much more weight I can safely lose. In any case, my W/Kg is currently 3.07. I'm doing an updated test on Tuesday. I think if I went with the 20 min protocol, based on what I've been putting out recently, I'd be more up around 3.19. Still low for a cyclist. Not ~too~ bad for a triathlete. I'm hoping to get up to around 3.30 by the end of my current training cycle.

Coach Boyd...would love to know what your W/Kg is? :)

I have been following Lance's training on Twitter. Apparently he is back in the neighborhood of 5.xx-6.xx and is hoping to be 6.xx+-7.xx by the TdF rolls around.
coachboyd
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Re: How much power to push

Post by coachboyd »

The twenty minute test is NOT a threshold test, although for a general idea of threshold you can take 95% of your twenty minute power to determine your threshold (you'll need this info for a feature we're working on). But, the fitness levels presented ARE based on twenty minute mean maximal power. And the intervals that are built into the unit are all based on a percentage of the watts you held for twenty minutes.

When I am in my top shape for the year I can hold right at 5.5 w/kg for twenty minutes. It's definitely not my strength though, I go for the 5 minute efforts. It's more conducive to road racing in the US. Right now in the year I am just under 5.0.

The numbers those ProTour guys put out is amazing. I was doing intervals with Hincapie right before he left for Austrailia. We were doing some climbs at his threshold and I was dying to just stay on his wheel. Then it came time to simulate an attack. 600 watts for 30 seconds after riding at threshold for a while, and then we settled right back into threshold. I soon got popped.
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MultiRider
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Re: How much power to push

Post by MultiRider »

I got a new training DVD for Christmas -- a "RealRides" by Vision Quest with Robbie Ventura. I realize it is sponsored by CycleOps and features their logo on the screen, so apologies to iBike, but it is a good training video, particularly if you are training with power. It has a "dashboard" feature that makes it somewhat like a video game -- you're looking up the road and can scan the dashboard for Robbie's stats like power, HR, cadence, etc.

After doing a warm-up and approx 45 minutes of various kinds of workouts, the Speed video has a 3 lap road race. Though my wattage was definintely lower than Robbie's numbers, I still felt okay about it because I was keeping a pretty consistent percentage of his wattage, but then they did a sprint for the line at the end of the first lap. At the beginning of the sprint on the first lap, Robbie starts pumping out >700 watts for what seemed like forever as I struggled to do a lame percentage of that. Then he cranked it up past 1000 watts as the line neared. Then he went all out! I don't what his max was, but he got over 1200 watts. After the sprint, Robbie and the others settled back into the 300 watt range and kept going. They did the sprint again the next lap with more eye-popping numbers. Maybe I worked too hard during the first part of the video because I was cooked after the first sprint. I did a cool down during the 2nd lap and was so dejected that I turned it off after the 2nd lap sprint, but I'm sure they hammered the 3rd sprint as well. It was very humbling.

Gave me a lot more respect for the pros. Particularly when I realized I probably outweigh Robbie by 20 pounds, so even if I put out the same wattage that he was producing, he would still be dropping me pretty easily. And I only put out a fraction of his watts!

Anyway, if you want to know how many watts to put out and have a trainer and are looking for a new training DVD, you might try a RealRides video and try to keep up with Robbie and his team of coaching assistants. It is a revelation and depressing yet motivating all at the same time.
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Velocomp
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Re: How much power to push

Post by Velocomp »

We love CycleOps, so much so that we even made it possible to use their ANT+ wireless hubs with the iAero, instead of their silly yellow gizmo! :D
John Hamann
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Re: How much power to push

Post by turbomentor »

That silly yello gizmo is very non-intuitive and not real user friendly. I've adapted very well to my iBike! Don't even use the PT CPU any more.
hakuna
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Re: How much power to push

Post by hakuna »

How would those numbers CAT and fitness relate to those of us in the masters category. I've seen a lot of wattage figures tossed around, but I was wondering what a mid pack masters rider's output would be for threshold. I mean in general, not elite. Anyone want to share the numbers for a 50 year old?
R Mc
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Re: How much power to push

Post by R Mc »

A quick snap-shot:

I race primarily 40+ in Texas (I'm 45 and nominally a cat3). Most recent 20 min test = 284 av wts. I weigh 152 = 4.1 w/kg. At a recent weekend stage race, I rode a 16:18 6.5 mile tt (283 av wts)--that placed me 18th. The winner (who's 49) rode in the mid 14s and weighs in the 140s, I'm guessing. Rest of the top 10 were in the 15s.

During Saturday's road race (before the battery cratered), I had a couple of efforts in the 500w range for around a minute. There was also a lot of time virtually free-wheeling. Sunday's race was a little harder, but I have no data for it since my wheel magnet shifted. We stayed above 30mph for all of the first 6 miles, though, and averaged 26 for the race (49 miles).
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Russ
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Re: How much power to push

Post by Russ »

62 year old picking ftp from wko history about 195w.
Before bike wreck nov 06 was a couple mph faster on my benchmark 26 mile ride, before power meter.
Note that I am mostly a fitness rider and my only real drive to build speed for 30 mile rides is to keep up with a paceline of ol' guys in my county that are semi-retired and ride all the time. On a really good day I can hang with them but usually get dropped. Before the wreck it was not an issue :D. Mostly I ride by myself so it is too easy to get lazy on the training. :o My goal this year is more base miles and a mix of sprints and intervals to get back on the line.
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cure
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Re: How much power to push

Post by cure »

i understand the power output, but how does it calculate to speed when trying to categorize yourself as cat 1- 5? does it not have anything to do with how fast you actually go? sorry about the question, im trying to understand all this...and see where i stand.
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arkiejon
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Re: How much power to push

Post by arkiejon »

cure wrote:i understand the power output, but how does it calculate to speed when trying to categorize yourself as cat 1- 5? does it not have anything to do with how fast you actually go? sorry about the question, im trying to understand all this...and see where i stand.
I'm fairly new and I think I understand what you are asking.

Don't worry about speed because if the wind is blowing head on and you are riding at 10 mph you might be pushing 350 watts, but if the wind is behind you, you might be doing 25 mph and only pushing 200 watts or less.

I use both power and heart rate.

Do your fitness ride and get your ftp. If it is 180 ride around that depending on what you want to do? If you want to ride longer ride a little under that and if you want to build for short rides ride a little over your ftp. You will learn pretty fast what you can handle but don't hurt your self.

Find your max heart rate and stay under it. Lower for long rides and higher if you are trying to improve for short fast rides.

Read up on heart rates zones and power zones and use them together.

But then again I ride for fun and could care less if I get dropped. I would rather ride alone anyway.

I"m not a coach and never will be. So use my advise for what it is worth, Not much..
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racerfern
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Re: How much power to push

Post by racerfern »

But then again I ride for fun and could care less if I get dropped. I would rather ride alone anyway.
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coachboyd
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Re: How much power to push

Post by coachboyd »

cure wrote:i understand the power output, but how does it calculate to speed when trying to categorize yourself as cat 1- 5? does it not have anything to do with how fast you actually go? sorry about the question, im trying to understand all this...and see where i stand.
Something that you may want to try is using the pre-built intervals. Go out and do a fitness test and then try some of the strength intervals. It's cycling in it's purest form. You don't have to worry about speed, cadence, or what you're doing compared to other riders. The pre-built intervals will tell you how many watts to push and for how long. And they are based on a percentage of the watts you held for twenty minutes. It's a great way to introduce yourself to proper interval training and reap the benefits of training correctly.
Boyd Johnson
http://www.boydcycling.com - high performance carbon wheels and accessories
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