At long last, the iBike Newton!

[Zoltan]

Dear John,

Could you please help me with answering these two questions of mine.

2/a Am I right that both Newton and Newton+ can get the signals of any ANT+ sensors including those from Garmin without adding the GT key?

2/b It is evident that Newton lacks the CdA functionality Newton+ has, but can Newton read and display DFPM data like from Powertap hubs provided they are ANT+?

Thanks

Zoltan

Yes, all Newton products have the ability to receive ANT+ speed, cadence, and HR sensor signals.

Any Newton product with the GT key installed will read DFPM data from any ANT+ power sensor.

Thx for the answers but I feel I couldnt get all the points.

2/a Now I understood that both Newton and N+ have the ability to receive the ANT+ signals including those Garmin speed, cadence & HR sensors. So no need to buy the GT key to communicate the Garmin sensors. Garmin sensors are not discriminated.

2/b But I am an even bit more confused now with reading DFPM. Let me put it differently. Neither Newton, nor N+ are not able to communicate with a Powertap hub without a GT key??? So far I was sure that GT key is not needed for reading DPFM, before your answer I had thought that the primary aim of GT key is allowing iBike products to share their data with another head unit namely one from Garmin.

2/c I still wonder whether bot types of Gen IV Products can read DPFM data (without GT key too), or just Newton+ can?

[dtrousdale]

2/a Now I understood that both Newton and N+ have the ability to receive the ANT+ signals including those Garmin speed, cadence & HR sensors. So no need to buy the GT key to communicate the Garmin sensors. Garmin sensors are not discriminated.

2/b But I am an even bit more confused now with reading DFPM. Let me put it differently. Neither Newton, nor N+ are not able to communicate with a Powertap hub without a GT key??? So far I was sure that GT key is not needed for reading DPFM, before your answer I had thought that the primary aim of GT key is allowing iBike products to share their data with another head unit namely one from Garmin.

2/c I still wonder whether bot types of Gen IV Products can read DPFM data (without GT key too), or just Newton+ can?

The key point here is sending or receiving Ant+ signals:

2/a - Correct. Both will receive from any Ant+ sensor, including Garmin sensors.

2/b - Both units will receive from any DFPM that sends a standard Ant+ signal. An Ant+ DFPM is just another sensor. The sole aim of the GT key is to send Ant+ signals with collected iBike data (HR, candence, power) from an iBike to any Garmin device that receives Ant+ signals. The idea is to commingle the data collected by the iBike with the GPS data collected by a Garmin.

2/c - Both will receive from any Ant+ sensor, including any DFPM that sends a standard Ant+ signal.

[Zoltan]

2/a Now I understood that both Newton and N+ have the ability to receive the ANT+ signals including those Garmin speed, cadence & HR sensors. So no need to buy the GT key to communicate the Garmin sensors. Garmin sensors are not discriminated.

2/b But I am an even bit more confused now with reading DFPM. Let me put it differently. Neither Newton, nor N+ are not able to communicate with a Powertap hub without a GT key??? So far I was sure that GT key is not needed for reading DPFM, before your answer I had thought that the primary aim of GT key is allowing iBike products to share their data with another head unit namely one from Garmin.

2/c I still wonder whether bot types of Gen IV Products can read DPFM data (without GT key too), or just Newton+ can?

The key point here is sending or receiving Ant+ signals:

2/a - Correct. Both will receive from any Ant+ sensor, including Garmin sensors.

2/b - Both units will receive from any DFPM that sends a standard Ant+ signal. An Ant+ DFPM is just another sensor. The sole aim of the GT key is to send Ant+ signals with collected iBike data (HR, candence, power) from an iBike to any Garmin device that receives Ant+ signals. The idea is to commingle the data collected by the iBike with the GPS data collected by a Garmin.

2/c - Both will receive from any Ant+ sensor, including any DFPM that sends a standard Ant+ signal.

Thanks, your answers were crystal clear.

Maybe because you did not intend to sell me a GT key

[cjonbike]

Zoltan
In all my dealings with John and all at Velocomp, He/They have always been Honest, fair and will bend over backwards to help! Does he want you to buy the GT key, Yes if that is what you need, but not otherwise!

Just My 2 cents worth!

Chris

[Zoltan]

I just simply didnt understand why I got this response:

"Yes, all Newton products have the ability to receive ANT+ speed, cadence, and HR sensor signals.

Any Newton product with the GT key installed will read DFPM data from any ANT+ power sensor."

Compared the two sentences from him to your clear answers to my clear questions it is evident that there is nothing to do with GT key. I would never doubt anyobdy's fairness considered just one post from him/her, but you can agree that having read my questions and the so-called official answers it prettily seems that I was guided to buy a GT key, cant you?

[Zoltan]

Or see this post from Morocco Mole made on 4th of April:
"Newton most definitely has the ANT+ receiver built in and will work with your existing speed\cadence\HR accessories including 3rd party (garmin,bontrager etc). In fact it also has ANT+ send hardware, but this capability is locked until you apply the GT Firmware. The only question I still have is does the Newton have the ability to operate as a DFPM headunit, and is it just the CDA capabilities that are unlocked in the Newton+"

Until your clear answer, thank you for it again, Morocco Mole did not get a clear confirmation. So I had been a diligent pupil to check the forum before posting.

[Velocomp]

I just simply didnt understand why I got this response:

"Yes, all Newton products have the ability to receive ANT+ speed, cadence, and HR sensor signals.

Any Newton product with the GT key installed will read DFPM data from any ANT+ power sensor."

Compared the two sentences from him to your clear answers to my clear questions it is evident that there is nothing to do with GT key. I would never doubt anyobdy's fairness considered just one post from him/her, but you can agree that having read my questions and the so-called official answers it prettily seems that I was guided to buy a GT key, cant you?

We are working on 5 major product changes right now, all of which occur in May. We are very busy...

I answer these questions whenever I can, but I don't think my answer was as clear as it could be.

In fact, I was incorrect in my second answer. It should have read:

"Any Newton product with the GT key installed will SEND POWER data TO any ANT+ device."

I apologize for the error.

Despite this mistake, one thing I hope is still absolutely clear: we never have, nor ever will try to trick anyone into buying something they do not want or do not need.

[Zoltan]

Your clarification is more than enough me. Referring to the beloved scetch of the British Monty Python team in a modified form, I am not the Spanish inquisition.

It is not my business at all but you should maybe employ somebody for communication. It would add really some costs, the price would be not like USD X99, but (X+1)05 or sthing like that but employing this guy would not just mean that you can avoid some misunderstandings born in a rush, but s/he can also react to real hostile reviews or remarks. I can say I did meet some surfing on the web.
Sorry if I went too far.

[Morocco Mole]

2/a Now I understood that both Newton and N+ have the ability to receive the ANT+ signals including those Garmin speed, cadence & HR sensors. So no need to buy the GT key to communicate the Garmin sensors. Garmin sensors are not discriminated.

2/b But I am an even bit more confused now with reading DFPM. Let me put it differently. Neither Newton, nor N+ are not able to communicate with a Powertap hub without a GT key??? So far I was sure that GT key is not needed for reading DPFM, before your answer I had thought that the primary aim of GT key is allowing iBike products to share their data with another head unit namely one from Garmin.

2/c I still wonder whether bot types of Gen IV Products can read DPFM data (without GT key too), or just Newton+ can?

The key point here is sending or receiving Ant+ signals:

2/a - Correct. Both will receive from any Ant+ sensor, including Garmin sensors.

2/b - Both units will receive from any DFPM that sends a standard Ant+ signal. An Ant+ DFPM is just another sensor. The sole aim of the GT key is to send Ant+ signals with collected iBike data (HR, candence, power) from an iBike to any Garmin device that receives Ant+ signals. The idea is to commingle the data collected by the iBike with the GPS data collected by a Garmin.

2/c - Both will receive from any Ant+ sensor, including any DFPM that sends a standard Ant+ signal.

In relation to the standard Newton, this is the answer (2b, 2c) that I want to hear, but just curious where you got your information regarding the "receiving" of ANT+ (and therefore display\record) signal from DFPM, do you work for Velocomp or are a Beta tester? This is the question I have been asking but I still haven't actually seen John confirm this. He did incorrectly make the statement regarding the GT Key, which he has since corrected. My interpretation of the Newton specs was that it would "receive" from an ANT+ DFPM, but this is what I am seeking formal clarification on. This is a departure from the GEN III where only the iAero was capable of operating as a DFPM head unit, if so it's quite a big improvement as it makes the standard Newton a viable competitor for the Garmin 500, Joule, Bontrager etc

[Velocomp]

It is not my business at all but you should maybe employ somebody for communication. She/he can also react to real hostile reviews or remarks. I can say I did meet some surfing on the web.

There isn't enough money in the world to respond to the hostile (and generally uninformed) comments about the iBike.

Actually, maybe I'm wrong about this comment, too; if all the money wasted on DFPMs was instead spent on iBikes, there would be lots of extra cash floating around.

[ScottChapman]

Did anyone else notice that May is only two weeks away?

[dtrousdale]

Morocco Mole wrote:
In relation to the standard Newton, this is the answer (2b, 2c) that I want to hear, but just curious where you got your information regarding the "receiving" of ANT+ (and therefore display\record) signal from DFPM, do you work for Velocomp or are a Beta tester?

No, I am not associated with Velocomp in any way other than as a customer. On the other hand, I am a long time user of the iBike and then the iAero and have followed the product development carefully over the years. Also I own two bikes with DFPMs (Quarq) and three without DFPMs. Until now I've never wanted to spend the extra money for the GT key, but since I still want aero testing capabilities, so I'm springing for a Newton+ and getting the GT key as a bonus. I typically use a Garmin 500 as the head unit for my DFPM-enabled bikes, so I'll now use the Garmin with my non-DFPM-enabled bikes, too, and get the GPS data along with the power data. I'm going to be a very happy camper if this all works as advertised!

[Velocomp]

Did anyone else notice that May is only two weeks away?

True enough. I don't think we can work any harder than we are.

Be patient; it will be worth it.

[andrewhk]

I have been trying to catch up with all the posts and Q&A's before I order. Two questions I do not think have been asked:
1. I cannot find a picture of the steerer tube mount and the stem mount will not available until June. Which is/will be the most aerodynamic? I do recall seeing a photo of the idash steerer tube mount some time ago and it looked like it stood very tall on top of the tube.
2. I appreciate you do not want to give any commercial secrets away but what is the expected eta of the gps function?
thanks Andrew

[KenS]

1. I cannot find a picture of the steerer tube mount and the stem mount will not available until June. Which is/will be the most aerodynamic? I do recall seeing a photo of the idash steerer tube mount some time ago and it looked like it stood very tall on top of the tube.

I posted a link to the Youtube installation instructions for the steer tube mount about a page back. It does sit quite high on the tube but the aerodynamics are determined by the cross sectional area so I can't imaging there's much difference between them

[Velocomp]

1. I cannot find a picture of the steerer tube mount and the stem mount will not available until June. Which is/will be the most aerodynamic? I do recall seeing a photo of the idash steerer tube mount some time ago and it looked like it stood very tall on top of the tube.

We are working on a new mount designed specifically for the Newton. Hopefully we'll have images later this week.

[jslopez93]

Train with your + Power, race with your Newton...

Am curious about this statement.

I had just gotten an iphone and previous to the Newton announcement I was considering the idash with power as an upgrade to my current i-aero.

That being said, how does the Dash compare to the Newton particularly on:
1) Performance on core functions - (Power/sensor accuracy, HR,)
2) Added features - Idash being an iphone app and having built in GPs functionality means more flexibility or features?
3) Reliability
4) what ever other factors that make one different from the other

thanks

[gayeskin]

John,
Great work! I am really excited about the new product. One quick question, i didn't see answered in this post. I currently have the indoor trainer key with the Gen III iBike, is this transferable to the Newton?

Thanks
Nathan

[Velocomp]

You'll need to purchase a new indoor trainer key for the Newton series. This key will be transferrable at no charge to future versions of Newton products.

[Velocomp]

Train with your + Power, race with your Newton...

Am curious about this statement.

I had just gotten an iphone and previous to the Newton announcement I was considering the idash with power as an upgrade to my current i-aero.

That being said, how does the Dash compare to the Newton particularly on:
1) Performance on core functions - (Power/sensor accuracy, HR,)
2) Added features - Idash being an iphone app and having built in GPs functionality means more flexibility or features?
3) Reliability
4) what ever other factors that make one different from the other

thanks

1) Accuracy is comparable for both units.
2) LOTS more features with the + Power, due to the sophistication of the iPhone and the iBike app.
3) Equally good reliability.
4) Newton is smaller and lighter. Both are qualities desired by racers.

[ScottChapman]

Since the battery on the Newton is built-in what is it's lifespan?

I know on apple devices like iPod you have to send in the device when the battery eventually fails (which they all do at some point).

What's the policy for when the battery eventually dies on the Newton?

[Velocomp]

If we were as big as Apple we likely would have firm answers.

We are not as big as Apple.

We own 4 iPhones and 3 iPod touch devices. None have required battery replacement.

Our battery should go for over 300 full recharges. That is 2+ years of normal riding.

When we start seing battery problems we will establish a policy. While we don't know now what the policy is, we will try to make it reasonable.

[Morocco Mole]

2/a Now I understood that both Newton and N+ have the ability to receive the ANT+ signals including those Garmin speed, cadence & HR sensors. So no need to buy the GT key to communicate the Garmin sensors. Garmin sensors are not discriminated.

2/b But I am an even bit more confused now with reading DFPM. Let me put it differently. Neither Newton, nor N+ are not able to communicate with a Powertap hub without a GT key??? So far I was sure that GT key is not needed for reading DPFM, before your answer I had thought that the primary aim of GT key is allowing iBike products to share their data with another head unit namely one from Garmin.

2/c I still wonder whether bot types of Gen IV Products can read DPFM data (without GT key too), or just Newton+ can?

The key point here is sending or receiving Ant+ signals:

2/a - Correct. Both will receive from any Ant+ sensor, including Garmin sensors.

2/b - Both units will receive from any DFPM that sends a standard Ant+ signal. An Ant+ DFPM is just another sensor. The sole aim of the GT key is to send Ant+ signals with collected iBike data (HR, candence, power) from an iBike to any Garmin device that receives Ant+ signals. The idea is to commingle the data collected by the iBike with the GPS data collected by a Garmin.

2/c - Both will receive from any Ant+ sensor, including any DFPM that sends a standard Ant+ signal.

In relation to the standard Newton, this is the answer (2b, 2c) that I want to hear, but just curious where you got your information regarding the "receiving" of ANT+ (and therefore display\record) signal from DFPM, do you work for Velocomp or are a Beta tester? This is the question I have been asking but I still haven't actually seen John confirm this. He did incorrectly make the statement regarding the GT Key, which he has since corrected. My interpretation of the Newton specs was that it would "receive" from an ANT+ DFPM, but this is what I am seeking formal clarification on. This is a departure from the GEN III where only the iAero was capable of operating as a DFPM head unit, if so it's quite a big improvement as it makes the standard Newton a viable competitor for the Garmin 500, Joule, Bontrager etc

Still no formal answer on this, "will the standard newton operate as a head unit for a DFPM"

[Velocomp]

Yes, we are working on this!

[Morocco Mole]

Yes, we are working on this!

I want to take advantage of the early trade-in program so I would like to know which version to order before the offer expires.

Regards

[Rolf1]

If we were as big as Apple we likely would have firm answers.

We are not as big as Apple.

We own 4 iPhones and 3 iPod touch devices. None have required battery replacement.

Our battery should go for over 300 full recharges. That is 2+ years of normal riding.

When we start seing battery problems we will establish a policy. While we don't know now what the policy is, we will try to make it reasonable.

Hello,

that does not sound really well for me. 300 full charges is theory, the practice is that lithium batteries lose power every day even when you don´t use them. Everyone who has a mobile phone or a laptop knows, that the battery loses significant power after 2 -3 years (often even earlier !). I expect to be able to use a powermeter a lot of years. An owner of a Newton who lives in US may accept to send back it to iBikesports but for owners outside for example Europe shipping will cost more than the new battery itself. So my question is: what is cheaper, Gen III with a lot of batteries or a Newton which must be sent back every few years. I expect to be able to change the battery myself. Than I could order a new battery when I see, that the battery becomes weak.

Rolf

[phelgar]

Will the Newton be compatible with Strava like the iBike Dash with power? In specific will the upcoming way to handle GPS data allow exportation to Strava to view workouts?

Thanks

Gen I, Gen II, Gen III areo
iBike Dash Deluxe, iBike Dash with Power

[astroman]

Hi John,

If your Newton + works as promised then it is just the power solution I am looking for my road bike, tri bike and trainer. Have given up on the Garmin Vectors.

Am keen to order a Newton + now to take advantage of your incentive, but am unable to add a RWS for use on my tri bike to my shopping cart. Any idea why?

Thanks!

[Velocomp]

If we were as big as Apple we likely would have firm answers.

We are not as big as Apple.

We own 4 iPhones and 3 iPod touch devices. None have required battery replacement.

Our battery should go for over 300 full recharges. That is 2+ years of normal riding.

When we start seing battery problems we will establish a policy. While we don't know now what the policy is, we will try to make it reasonable.

Hello,

that does not sound really well for me. 300 full charges is theory, the practice is that lithium batteries lose power every day even when you don´t use them. Everyone who has a mobile phone or a laptop knows, that the battery loses significant power after 2 -3 years (often even earlier !). I expect to be able to use a powermeter a lot of years. An owner of a Newton who lives in US may accept to send back it to iBikesports but for owners outside for example Europe shipping will cost more than the new battery itself. So my question is: what is cheaper, Gen III with a lot of batteries or a Newton which must be sent back every few years. I expect to be able to change the battery myself. Than I could order a new battery when I see, that the battery becomes weak.

Rolf

The Gen III has been discontinued. You can probably find a used unit, but be aware that re-sold units are not covered by warranty.

Remember, too, that when a Newton is returned for battery replacement, it will be returned in a new case and its operation will be checked out.

[Velocomp]

Yes, we are working on this!

I want to take advantage of the early trade-in program so I would like to know which version to order before the offer expires.

Regards

Either Newton model will be able to receive DFPM signals.