Battery Life in Head Unit

[Morocco Mole]

I was wondering about a "spreadable" contact cement or glue that has conductive properties. I vaguely remember seeing or hearing about something like that.

this is the stuff I got from my favorite local Electronics supply shop (in OZ), must be something similar available in North America

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.as ... rm=KEYWORD

[lorduintah]

Google "wire glue" - shows plenty of US sources.

Tom

[biker2000on]

I finally have a setup that looks nice and adds voltage to the ibike. I can measure voltage coming through the contacts at 3.15V, but when I put the ibike on there without a battery in it there is not enough amperage to turn it on. Is this a valid test for if my set up is working or not?

For my setup I drilled holes into the side of the mount and inserted wires to touch the contacts inside and sealed with 'wire glue'. This setup is awesome, but I can't tell if it is truly working or what the definition of working is. I haven't gone through a battery in a week or so, but it has also been warmer lately.

[Velocomp]

You need a really nice soldering iron with bright lights and good eyes and steady hands. I use a Bernz0Matic Propane type iron and a glass of Brandy, you need fast hot heat and get out of there before you melt the plastic and the brandy just taste good. Using low heat makes you stay there too long which heats the metal from one end to the other and melts the plastic. Use a rock on your die grinder and smooth the solder lightly, then do the black wire.

OK, WE GET IT, BUT WHAT KIND OF BRANDY?

[Steve_Davidson]

I finally have a setup that looks nice and adds voltage to the ibike. I can measure voltage coming through the contacts at 3.15V, but when I put the ibike on there without a battery in it there is not enough amperage to turn it on. Is this a valid test for if my set up is working or not?

For my setup I drilled holes into the side of the mount and inserted wires to touch the contacts inside and sealed with 'wire glue'. This setup is awesome, but I can't tell if it is truly working or what the definition of working is. I haven't gone through a battery in a week or so, but it has also been warmer lately.

I've done this several weeks ago although I filed slots in the mount (wireless) until I exposed the side of the relevant pins then used the wire glue to bond the wires to the side of the pins in the mount. I took my time with the wire glue and let one wire set overnight before doing the other. I then covered the wire glue area in superglue to seal it and just used electrical tape around the mount to hold the wires to avoid damaging them. I've used it for the last 4 weeks or so with some AA cells and it works just fine. I'll upgrade the cell to a CR123 when I get the time.

cheers

Steve

[jparker]

Could you post some photos Thanks

[cjonbike]

I have a question when you hook up the external battery to the wireless mount does this also help power the mount or just the iBike itself?

Thank you for the help

Chris

[racerfern]

It helps power the mount also. In fact with the copper foil I have in between the mount and the iBike you have to have good contact on both sides of the foil, otherwise you get a WLS FAIL. This was probably the biggest challenge doing the foil method with superglue. If using a superglue type product it can only make contact on the plastic not on the pins themselves that show on the head.

The wireglue stuff alluded to in other postings might work better as it conducts rather than insulate.

[cjonbike]

Thank you Fernando for your help and time

[N3GWIR]

I recently bought a supply of batteries from iBike online and have had very poor installed life - like just one hour at 40 degrees! I realize that little marvel has a lot of crunching to do but this is getting to be a real issue. Last week I even had two new batteries that failed the battery test right out of the package. Perhaps a new (optional) wireless mount design with a more robust battery(s) could be considered? i.e. that could power both the iBike and the wireless transceiver to give better installed life. I commend those who modify the existing design but they all look a little too "Avant-garde" to me. Merry Christmas to all and thanks to John for running a great show.

[lorduintah]

Check the battery readings indoors before going outside and then after the unit has equilibrated to outdoor temps.

Change the record interval to 5 sec., if you have not already done so.

I do have to agree that a different - say Li-ion battery external design add-on might be beneficial for those in cold climates. There are several different brands of batteries - some seem to be a little more robust than others. I have purchased mine from Digi-key - Panasonic is the brand I chose and am having fairly good success.

Tom

[racerfern]

I used the CR123A battery inside the handlebar end along with a piece of 24 gauge (very small) speaker wire. Since I just put new handle bar tape on, I ran it under the tape. At the wireless head the wire comes neatly out from under the bar and right up to the wireless head and the two contacts as : http://www.duke.edu/~aah3/DSCN2685.JPG

Then a piece of black electrical tape around the wireless head and other than the copper strip on top you can't tell it's even there. http://www.whimsie.com for a small sample piece of thin (.005" or thinner) copper sheet. Use wireglue http://www.wireglue.us instead of super glue.

The bottom line is that unless I tell someone I have it installed they never notice, it's that discreet. I haven't seen and won't see really cold temps where I live, but I've had my share of mid 40s for a couple of hours. I've had the same battery for 4 weeks without changing it. It always shows above 2.77v to 2.90v. There is an added advantage of far more stable wind offset readings as the battery voltage stays stable.

It would be nice if there were some kind of retrofit like for the wired units but you gotta do what you gotta do.

[chaproc]

Here are couple of pictures of my extra battery mount. I used wire glue covered with super glue (this was a recommendation)to attach the leads. I ground away the plastic from the power studs on the handlebar unit so that I could attach the leads on the side of the studs. I flattened the wires from the battery holder and made an "L" shaped bend so that some of the leads overlapped the top of the unit. I covered the leads from the battery box with some heat shrink tubing and used a piece of inner tube to secure the wires around the base of the bar unit. Another piece of inner tube made a nice weatherproof cover for the dual AA battery box.
The total time to do this was about 30 minutes, not counting letting the wire glue set up overnight. Total cost about $10, most of which was the wire glue.

ib_small.jpg (380.79 KiB) Viewed 25291 times

ib2_small.jpg (477.15 KiB) Viewed 25294 times

I mounted the iBike head with an older battery. Before I mounted it the battery level read 276. When I put it on the bike the level jumped up to 288. With a fresh battery the level on the bike was 302. I took the head unit on and off several times and the connection stayed solid. I've ridden in subfreezing temperatures with the same battery (in the unit for ~2 weeks with several hours of indoor use) for more than 15 hours the power on the bike reads 285, off the bike 271. I don't see any reason to use another type of battery as the AA holder fits nicely under my stem.

[lorduintah]

I would like to see an interstitial design - one more ring that can be twisted onto the wireless mount and then the head unit twisted onto that. This ring would have the external wires and a battery pack with a velcro mount that you could strap to the stem or other location. This could really answer all the problems and should be an easy one to get built up...

It would need a couple tabs on the side so that you could easily remove it from the stack...

Just another random thought!

Tom

[arkiejon]

I would like to see an interstitial design - one more ring that can be twisted onto the wireless mount and then the head unit twisted onto that. This ring would have the external wires and a battery pack with a velcro mount that you could strap to the step or other location. This could really answer all the problems and should be an easy one to get built up...
It would need a couple tabs on the side so that you could easily remove it from the stack...
Just another random thought!
Tom

I like what you describe, and think if it had been available I would/may have bought one. But not to the tune of 250 USD when I can build one for under 10 bucks.

Yes I did pull that $250 number out of the air, But unless you can move a pallet of them, that might be a fair price.

[lorduintah]

I totally agree - a thought is one thing - it takes money to put an elegant solution into place. Many of the home-built solutions may not have the panache, but they have the function.

I would not pay anything close to that either.

Tom

[vlp]

My simple solution is to change before the batteries get too low and save the batteries for warmer weather.

You can get batteries in bulk for less than $.25/battery in volume of 10+ from http://www.digikey.com. At that price, shipping ends up being significant, so buy in bulk and choose the cheapest shipping option. Better yet, find another iBike user who live nearby and share an order. I bought 40 and split the order with a friend over a year ago at a cost of around $.40/battery including shipping.

[mechgt]

Another external battery example:
Supplies:
Of course some of these may be optional, but this is pretty much what I used
- Solder to connect wire to copper leads
- super glue to stick copper leads to mount, and also to help hold the battery on
- Inner tubes to wrap the battery, and wrap the mount to make it look cleaner
- Ohmmeter for testing to make sure I didn't screw anything up and that connections were good
- Black wire (from an old AC adapter)
- Copper strips to go on the iBike mount (borrowed from a friend , but originally from http://whimsie.com) - From the website I'm going to assume that these strips are .005" thick.
- neodymium magnets to connect the battery to the wire leads (mine were ~1/2" disc shaped)


By mechgt, shot with Canon PowerShot SD1000 at 2010-01-14

I used some neodymium magnets I had (picked up off eBay or dealextreme.com a while back) in order to connect the battery to the wire leads. The battery barely fit in my handlebars and I didn't trust my soldering skills on the battery. I tried to solder the wire leads to the magnets... this didn't work. The solder wouldn't stick, so I just 'tried harder'. This resulted in complete demagnetization of the magnet (heat from the soldering iron killed the magnet.) Instead, I used wire glue (mentioned earlier here) to adhere the wire leads to the magnets. Picked this up on eBay for about $7 shipped. When it dries, it'll hold things in place, but it's not 'tough'... meaning that you can without too much effort pull your parts apart. I added some super glue on top of the wire glue (after it dried of course) on the magnets for reinforcement. Wire + wire glue + magnet + super glue seems to have worked pretty well for me.

The copper is the copper sample from http://whimsie.com. I don't have the specs on it, but it molded very well, and was perfect to still allow iBike to fit on the mount, but thick enough that I don't anticipate wear issues. Mold and shape the copper to the mount, then I placed a dot of wire glue on the iBike's contact prior to super gluing the copper strip to the mount. Other things like dielectric grease should work as well instead of wire glue, but that's just what I had on hand. Place glue on the copper strip in order to avoid making a mess, but don't put glue where the mount contact will touch the copper strip... maybe just put it around the perimeter of the copper strip. The idea here is to ensure that the super glue doesn't prohibit contact between the mount and copper strip.

Note that the lead next to 'i' (in iBike) is connected to the positive side of the battery (and the other is of course negative.)


I then got an old mountain bike tire to act as a cover and make it all look cleaner:


Then just run the wire down the handlebars...


I stuffed the battery/magnets in a piece of old road bike inner tube to prevent it from rattling and to make sure it wasn't contacting the handlebars on the inside. The battery/inner tube piece wouldn't really fit in my handlebars after re-wrapping the corktape... I suggest you put the battery in first, then re-wrap your handlbars.

[mechgt]

NOTE: I've got a Gen II iPro

So I've had just a little time to play with it, and I've come to realize that now with the external battery the wind sensor doesn't work... like at all. I recently went out just playing around with the iBike, and noticed low power on the flats, and '0' power on the downhills (even when I was pedaling hard). I went to setup and clicked 'Offset' many many times throughout this ride trying to get it back, but it never worked. Later, I also tried removing the battery > upside down > re-insert battery and that didn't seem to help.

Does anyone else have experience with a Gen II and an external battery? Maybe it's possible that the battery voltages aren't matched closely enough and it's making the iBike's wind sensor angry

The ride attached was after doing the upside-down-battery reset. Notice that there's almost no wind. Note that prior to the ride I let the iBike acclimate outside for about 5 minutes before doing a tilt calibration and wind offset. Around mile 9.5ish I stopped at a red-light and removed the iBike from the mount in an attempt to do wind offset while separated from the mount (and thus external battery) but the light turned too quickly and I had to leave (was with a group.)

EDIT: Oops... I mistakenly indicated Gen II, this was a Gen I unit.

[racerfern]

Wind measurement technically has nothing to do with external batteries. External battery connecters can affect speed, cadence and HR as the unit receives wireless signals. In fact if the external battery were affecting operation you would probably get a WLS FAIL signal. This of course assumes that the external connectors are on the correct pins.

I suggest you check the unit itself. Without being on the mount go to wind offset and set zero it out facing away from a wind ( this is for testing only). Then turn into the wind and see if the wind offset number starts changing, not the windspeed, but the wind offset number. That's a much better indication that things are working correctly.

Also, check to make sure you are not in trainer mode. That basically disables wind readings. I don't recall how that works on a Gen II but it certainly will have an effect.

[coachboyd]

NOTE: I've got a Gen II iPro

There are a couple things that I see in your profile. If you happen to have a ride that you did by yourself on a somewhat calm day in terms of the wind, please send it to me. I want to take a look at your wind scaling and your riding tilt to see if we can get you better numbers.

You can email me the file to boyd (at) boydbikes dot com

[mechgt]

Wind measurement technically has nothing to do with external batteries. External battery connecters can affect speed, cadence and HR as the unit receives wireless signals. In fact if the external battery were affecting operation you would probably get a WLS FAIL signal. This of course assumes that the external connectors are on the correct pins.

I am not using the wireless mount... I've got a wired speed/cadence mount that I'm using at the moment; so I wouldn't expect to see WLS FAIL even if things were bad... right? You can take a look at the pictures above as to which pins I selected, and the voltage is the correct (positive) polarity when I put the red test lead on the copper labeled positive (10 o'clock) and vice versa for black. Yesterday I checked and the battery was registering around 275 off the mount, and 287 on the mount. Not exactly sure how to test if the copper strips are connected to the mount pins, but I attempted to make sure this happened when I constructed it.

I suggest you check the unit itself. Without being on the mount go to wind offset and set zero it out facing away from a wind ( this is for testing only). Then turn into the wind and see if the wind offset number starts changing, not the windspeed, but the wind offset number. That's a much better indication that things are working correctly.

I've tried this by blowing into the sensor several times, but not by taking it outside (I need to find a fan...) Anyway, when it's off the mount, it registers wind (apparently I can blow at 4 mph), but on the mount, I get nothing. Whether I do the offset on the mount, or off the mount, same result (no wind on mount.) I believe the number I was looking at when I did this was from the Setup > Offset screen.

Also, check to make sure you are not in trainer mode. That basically disables wind readings. I don't recall how that works on a Gen II but it certainly will have an effect.

I don't have the trainer option available to me, but I'd sure feel silly if that were the problem. I'll check it

[racerfern]

The wind offset number is not in mph, it's in pascals (a unit of pressure, IIRC) so the number displayed is proportionately higher. IOW, a wind offset of +3 might be a 1 mph difference or something along that line.

Another thing you could try to confirm proper operation is to ride in the wind offset screen for a little bit and see if the number jumps to very high numbers. Don't press the center button, just watch the numbers. Then try cupping your hand in front of the unit as you ride. You should see the wind offset number drop substantially as you block and unblock the port.

Obviously this is not the way to calibrate or ride with a Gen II, this is just to confirm that the wind part of the unit is working properly.

[mechgt]

Wow, ok more confused now I got a little handheld fan and tested a bit, but got what I think to be normal results both mounted and unmounted. This is not what (I thought) I was experiencing on the bike. Here's what I found:

Off Mount (thus no external battery connected):
Battery - 275
Offset with fan blowing - around 6
Wind with fan blowing - around 8 mph

On mount:
Battery - 285
(all other are the same)

When I mount the iBike the offset changes, so I re-zero it... that seems expected. Anyway, my fan affects both the offset and wind (as seen on the 'Enviro' user screen.) Maybe something else happened and it's just a total coincidence that I added a battery and things went a little crazy.

Tested the batteries separated from the iBike with my multimeter: External battery measures 3.01V via the copper strips (with polarity verified as noted above), and the internal coin battery measured 2.96V when removed from the iBike (why would the iBike show different voltage than my multmeter? off topic I suppose). Don't know if this matters or not, but the internal battery is a crappy super cheap battery I got in a 10 pack off fleaBay with some oriental lettering on it. I did notice that when I remove and replace the battery, the offset screen initially goes to something like 51.

I also checked 'Trnr' mode... it was not on, and it would not let me turn it on (I don't have that option).

[racerfern]

The battery voltage shown by the iBike is under load (I learned that the hard way) so it's always less than pulling out the battery and measuring the static voltage.

Get a couple of Panasonic or Duracell coin batteries at CVS or some drugstore. Stay away from Lance Armstrong's sponsor if you want good reliable batteries.

It sounds like the wind section is working just fine.

[lorduintah]

Batteries:

Velocomp sells multi-packs - one choice for a reliable source. But no matter where you get them, there still is a possibility that you may end up with an occasional weak or dead battery.

Another is to look at Digikey or other distributor where you can buy in bulk - don't go overboard, but a 50 - 100 pack will last a long time. (You can use a Google search for other sources, CR2032 and you will get pages.) Bulk pricing is a better deal than going to a store and buying one or two at a time by a long shot.

Panasonic, Energizer, Duracell, Maxell and other major brand names are safer to use than fly-by-night.

Yes - a battery under load will show lower voltage than one measured with probes from a multimeter on the front/back of a single battery.

Tom

[racerfern]

I just went 8 weeks with the same CR2032 in the iBike in almost cold weather. With an external battery things change. Two CR2032 batteries will probably last an entire mild winter. You might use three or four for the entire winter in real cold weather with an external battery. Buy too many and you could have shelf life issues.

[mechgt]

I'll swap out the internal battery and see if that makes a difference. The tests were inside (nice temperature), and the rides were of course outside (cooler temperature) so that could be the difference. I'll put in a fresh CR2032 and report back.

[mechgt]

I did replace the internal battery, but had bad results. I've replaced battery twice and am still not reading wind properly.

I've moved my problem to this thread in an attempt not to clutter this external battery example thread:
Little or no wind readings

[FelicianoVASA]

I am interested in buying the iAero as well, but would like to know if you can rig an external battery to the wireless mount like you can with the wired mounts. I am thinking of this one.

http://www.duke.edu/~aah3/DSCN2685.JPG
http://lists.topica.com/lists/iBikeProP ... start=1742

The second link explains how it is hooked up. Are the contacts on the wireless mount the same as the wired mount, so I know where to put those contacts?

Anyone can help me? How can I do that? There is some tutorial?

Thanks