Trainer Mode remains On even after setting it to Off

malcolmdavies · Post by **malcolmdavies** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:45 am

Hi

I have used the powerpod on a road bike with the supplied handlebar clamp and on my TT rig with the garmin /pod clamp sold on your website

The issue I have with both set ups is that the power going downhill is invariably too high. Even when I am freewheeling it will still show 2-400 watts

It is less of an issue on my roadbike but on my TT bike I have the additional issue that power drops directly proportional to the speed even if I am peddling at maximal effort.

I have tried various component repositioning, recallibrating and changing dynamic/3 sec settings etc but generally the pod seems to be relying far too much on speed rather than accurately reflecting power /gradient.

Can you suggest anything?

Thanks Malcolm

malcolmdavies · Post by **malcolmdavies** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:06 pm

Hi John. Thanks for the speedy reply. Yes I wondered if it was because I was in turbo mode but I'm pretty sure I switched that off (assuming rider profiles don't retain turbo mode?)

I will try to work out how to post my power profile from the hilly time trial I did yesterday to see what you think

malcolmdavies · Post by **malcolmdavies** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:45 am

Hi hopefully this will show my TT and a ttypical turbo session for comparison. I am certain that i switched turbo mode off as i always do that before switching profile as it means using a different bike. Could I have done something wrong with my profiles?

I do tuck down if descending but if i am freewheeling would it still give such high readings from me altering my ride position? It has often been high on downhills on times when it seems to be consistent on flats and uphills

Velocomp · Post by **Velocomp** » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:28 am

Both rides were recorded in indoor trainer mode.

malcolmdavies · Post by **malcolmdavies** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:10 pm

I see 5thanks

Is there any way to check it is off before you decouple the device from your pc or do you just have to make sure that it says it is off? Also if you switch profile after you turn it off is there any chance that the new profile could switch it back on?

Velocomp · Post by **Velocomp** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:53 pm

Connect your device to Isaac. Use the command "Device/Turn Off Trainer Mode".

: Screen Shot 2017-03-02 at 2.46.03 PM.png (132.94 KiB) Viewed 17066 times

You will get a confirming message when trainer mode is turned off.

: Screen Shot 2017-03-02 at 2.46.21 PM.png (11.24 KiB) Viewed 17066 times

malcolmdavies · Post by **malcolmdavies** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:26 pm

OK great if that's all I need to make sure I do then I will only have weak legs to explain power dropping on climbs!

Thanks for all your help. Much appreciated

Malc

malcolmdavies · Post by **malcolmdavies** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:18 am

Hi John. I'm still having the same issue. I have now used it 3 times and definitely switched indoor trainer mode off but it still stays on turbo mode.
I was changing to either setting frequently for 2 months with no issues. Could there be a problem with the software? It changes profiles no problem and I don't have connection issues with any other functionality.

Should I /can. I restore factory settings? I can't see how it could be a device sensor fault

Cheers Malc

Velocomp · Post by **Velocomp** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:34 pm

Please post your most recent ride file.

malcolmdavies · Post by **malcolmdavies** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:39 pm

Hi here is the last one

Velocomp · Post by **Velocomp** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:57 pm

You're still in trainer mode.

After connecting your PP to Isaac, and using the command Device/Turn Off Trainer Mode, are you getting the "trainer mode turned off" message?

If so, do a hard-reset of your PP, then turn off trainer mode again with Isaac.

malcolmdavies · Post by **malcolmdavies** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:08 pm

Hi yes I am getting the trainer mode off alert.

What is a hard reset? Is it obvious in the dropdown options?

nicholp1 · Post by **nicholp1** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:48 am

Hi John

I had the same issue today. Last night i preped for the ride and switched off trainer mode in issac (confirmed via the pop up window) I then switched the active profile to one of my roadbikes. When I started my ride I assumed that i was going into calibration mode as my watts increased as I was acellrrating away. It soon became evident that my watts didnt match my percived effort and hitting 850 watts while soft pedaling down hill confirm my suspicion that i was in turbo mode.

I haven't done a hard reset yet as my next ride wil be a turbo session, however I'd confirm that this looks like a software issue.

What will you new iphone app do, will it report the status of the powerpod?

An independant check pre ride would be usefull feature, especily as a training ride with useless power data is more than fustrating.

Best Regards

Bob C · Post by **Bob C** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:31 am

Really glad I checked this thread out before starting a new one. I have exactly the same problem. The PowerPod somehow reverts to Trainer Mode on an outside ride when I know I have turned Trainer Mode off, and have received the confirmation message stating Trainer Mode is off. It has happened three times. The first time I thought it was my carelessness. But the last two times I have very methodically turned it off and made sure I got the confirmation. It's only on the ride itself -- in these cases a very familiar one on a false flat -- that I can see the giveaway signs. Going up my watts are low (because speed is down); going down my watts are elevated even though effort is way less (because speed is up). A steep climb on a side route reads 50 watts instead of the usual 450 because I'm crawling. Sure enough when I download ride, it's obviously trainer mode: no wind, slope, or elevation data.

Like nicholp1, I also send a different profile to the PP just after turning Trainer Mode off, because the rear tires are different sizes. Could it be that this somehow toggles the trainer off/on setting back to trainer?? As he said, it's a pain because there is no way to know whether trainer mode is truly off until you're out on your ride getting data clearly based only on speed and cadence and oblivious to slope or wind, and no way to fix it without riding home to the computer.

Did find the new O&B calibration easy, and subsequent outdoor ride data very consistent, so thanks for that. Also I have been able to dial in the trainer curve in Isaac / PP so that it is almost spot-on with the sensor on my Kurt Kinetic Now if the PP just wouldn't slyly sneak into trainer mode when no one's looking . . .

Bugsbunny · Post by **Bugsbunny** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:18 am

John

I had the same issue going downhill - and NOT PEDALLING it was showing 400W or thereabouts. It has never happened before in 10 months of usage. I have updated the ISAAC to version 4.1 recently. I don't know whats the cause.

nicholp1 · Post by **nicholp1** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:30 pm

John

I'll post mine when I get back fro vacation. My powerpod is curently in "trainer mode" so when I get home I'll capter everything with screen shots and .ibr files etc as I plan along road ride on my return.

nicholp1 · Post by **nicholp1** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:53 pm

Hi John

I have managed to replicate the issue with the PowerPod getting stuck in Trainer Mode. I've enclosed a document with the relevant steps and protocol that I was following. I also enclosed the two ride files from the “before” state i.e Trainer Mode and from after I switched this mode off and did a road test.

I hope this helps.

Bob C · Post by **Bob C** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:01 pm

Thanks, nicholp1, for taking the time to replicate and document this, which I have experienced too.

The only thing I have to add is that my PP did switch successfully to outdoor mode on two occasions after being in trainer mode. The only difference in my procedure was that on those occasions I sent the outside wheel profile to PP BEFORE turning off trainer mode, instead of after. May not be related at all, but thought I'd mention it. I haven't tried to replicate this with further trials. Just happy when the data's good.

Also I think I've found a way to make PP disclose which mode it's in away from the computer and before the ride has gone anywhere. If I really accelerate hard just out the door, the PP will show a large watts jump (I have it on dynamic smoothing) if it's truly in outdoor mode (and if its 8-min calibration process isn't having to drastically reorient). If it's in trainer mode, then the watts are only proportional to speed, not to acceleration (or climbing). Is this right, John?

Velocomp · Post by **Velocomp** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:11 pm

Hmm...I will ask our firmware expert about this. Something strange is going on!

Velocomp · Post by **Velocomp** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:48 am

OK, here is what we think is happening:

1) "Trainer mode" is one of the parameters stored in each profile

2) Suppose you have two profiles, profile 1 and profile 2.

3) You're doing a trainer ride in profile 2. "Trainer On" is set for profile 2.

4) You finish the trainer ride. Everything is fine.

5) You then want to do an outdoor ride, using your profile 1 settings.

6) You set your PP to "Trainer Off", then you switch to profile 1.

7) THE PROBLEM WITH THIS SEQUENCE IS THAT YOU SET PROFILE 2 TO TRAINER OFF, THEN AFTERWARDS SWITCHED TO PROFILE 1.

8) Profile 1 has Trainer settings completely different from profile 2. If Profile 1 is set to "Trainer On", then profile 1 will record as a trainer file, even though you think you've set your PP to Trainer off!

So, here is the correct way to do things, assuming Profile 1 is for outdoor riding, and Profile 2 is for trainer riding

1) EACH PROFILE HAS AN INDIVIDUAL "TRAINER MODE" SETTING

2) Make Profile 1 active, then set "Trainer Off" for profile 1

3) Make Profile 2 active, then set "Trainer On" for profile 2

Now, when you switch between profiles 1 and 2, trainer mode will function properly.

In other words, when using multiple profiles, first switch your PP to the profile you're using for today's ride, then set Trainer mode (on/off) to the way you plan to ride.

fishyweb · Post by **fishyweb** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:35 am

Hi John. I think I've previously run into this problem, as per http://www.ibikeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=3762.

I guess the obvious question here is whether you could change the firmware so that the trainer on/off setting is independent of individual profiles. I believe that would be much more intuitive, and would avoid having to connect the PP to your PC each time you change bike for an outdoor ride to ensure that trainer mode is switched off. Could you consider this change for a future firmware release?

Velocomp · Post by **Velocomp** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:45 am

fishyweb wrote:Hi John. I think I've previously run into this problem, as per http://www.ibikeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=3762.

I guess the obvious question here is whether you could change the firmware so that the trainer on/off setting is independent of individual profiles. I believe that would be much more intuitive, and would avoid having to connect the PP to your PC each time you change bike for an outdoor ride to ensure that trainer mode is switched off. Could you consider this change for a future firmware release?

If you are using the same bike for indoor AND outdoor rides, then you should have only one profile. When you switch from indoor to outdoor mode using Isaac, your single profile will "memorize" the setting most recently used. Effectively, your suggestion is already implemented for this scenario.

If you are using a different bike for indoor and outdoor rides (each bike with its own, unique speed sensor), then there should be two profiles:

1) Your "indoor" profile, where indoor mode is set to "on"

2) Your "outdoor" bike profile, where indoor mode is set to "off"

With two bikes, two profiles, and two unique speed sensors, PP will "automatically" switch to the correct profile for the day's ride, and automatically turn trainer mode on and off (no Isaac needed). To us, this seems very intuitive.

If we implement the proposal, the user will be forced to use Isaac to turn indoor mode on/off, even when the profile is automatically switched. This seems a step in the wrong direction, but perhaps I am missing something here...

nicholp1 · Post by **nicholp1** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:17 pm

John

This happened to me again today and it’s becoming very irritating as I could do nothing on the bike to switch the PowerPod over to normal road mode. I did a several hard resets but that just trigged a second ride file in trainer mode.

In term of bikes, I have a bike that is permanently setup on my turbo with one set of sensors and I was using another bike today with different sensors, so the statement that “With two bikes, two profiles, and two unique speed sensors, PP will "automatically" switch to the correct profile for the day's ride, and automatically turn trainer mode on and off (no Isaac needed).” is incorrect. There is clearly a bug here because even if the deactivated turbo mode had no worked, PowerPod has not switched off trainer mode based on the active profile.

I’ve upload four rides, three from today on the road a short session on the turbo yesterday.

I don’t know if this helps but if I query the PowerPod using Device / Set Active Profile in Newton the Turbo Trainer profile that was on 4 has disappeared. Maybe that was a result of the hard reset.
I can confirm that prior to the ride I had deactivated turbo mode and switched the active profile to No.2

: newton profiles.JPG (29.51 KiB) Viewed 16489 times

I’ve never tried letting the PowerPod do the switching for me, I’ve always used Isaac to turn of trainer mode. I will re upload the turbo trainer profile to the power pod and test.

I need to find a way to be assured that I’m on road mode prior to a ride and we needed a fix to this issue.

iBike_04_22_2017_1034_15_km.ibr: Profile 4 Turbo Bike; (77.96 KiB) Downloaded 272 times

iBike_04_23_2017_0848_0_km.ibr: Profile 2 Road Ride; (31.61 KiB) Downloaded 266 times

nicholp1 · Post by **nicholp1** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:19 pm

And the next two ride files..

iBike_01_10_2017_0000_13_km.ibr: Profile 2 No II; (93.28 KiB) Downloaded 384 times

01_10_2017_0000_13_km.ibr[/attachment]

fishyweb · Post by **fishyweb** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:32 pm

Velocomp wrote:If you are using the same bike for indoor AND outdoor rides, then you should have only one profile. When you switch from indoor to outdoor mode using Isaac, your single profile will "memorize" the setting most recently used. Effectively, your suggestion is already implemented for this scenario.

If you are using a different bike for indoor and outdoor rides (each bike with its own, unique speed sensor), then there should be two profiles:

1) Your "indoor" profile, where indoor mode is set to "on"

2) Your "outdoor" bike profile, where indoor mode is set to "off"

With two bikes, two profiles, and two unique speed sensors, PP will "automatically" switch to the correct profile for the day's ride, and automatically turn trainer mode on and off (no Isaac needed). To us, this seems very intuitive.

If we implement the proposal, the user will be forced to use Isaac to turn indoor mode on/off, even when the profile is automatically switched. This seems a step in the wrong direction, but perhaps I am missing something here...

OK, I can see where you are coming from, but my scenario is different. I have one bike that I use for both indoor and outdoor riding (on profile 1), and another bike that I only use outside (on profile 2, with different sensor). So when I have been using bike 2, and then want to switch to bike 1 for my next ride, I have to try to remember how I had PP set the last time I used bike 1 to figure whether I need to switch modes for profile 1. I'm not sure whether that makes me unusual, but I guess it is not unique as others have run into this issue as well.

Velocomp · Post by **Velocomp** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:39 pm

The problem is that your PP has "Trainer On" memorized in more than one of your profiles.

Do the following:

1) Connect PP to Isaac

2) Go to "Device/Set Active Profile in Device"

3) Select Profile 1

4) Go to "Device/Turn Off Trainer Mode". You will get a confirming message that trainer mode is off (in profile 1).

5) Repeat Steps 2,3,4 for your other three profiles (i.e. in Step 3, select profile 2,3,4 as appropriate). Set "Trainer Off" in all four of your profiles.

After completing the above steps, all profiles will now be in "Trainer Off" mode.

6) Now, if you use your bike with an indoor trainer that has a unique profile (for example, your indoor training is done using profile 2), go to "Device/Set Active Profile in Device", and select the profile number used with your indoor trainer (in this example, profile 2). DO NOT SELECT ANY OTHER PROFILE.

7) Once you have selected the profile with the indoor trainer, Go to "Device/Turn Trainer Mode on". This will memorize the Trainer On command, for the selected profile only (in this example, profile 2)

Assuming that all of the steps above are completed, whenever PP switches from your trainer profile (profile 2), to any other profile (profile 1, 3 or 4), Trainer mode will be turned off for all other profiles.

MAKE SURE THAT, BEFORE USING ISAAC TO SET "TRAINER ON", THAT YOU HAVE SELECTED AND CONFIRMED THAT PP IS USING THE PROFILE YOU HAVE CREATED FOR YOUR INDOOR BIKE (in this example, profile 2).

If your trainer bike has a unique speed sensor ID (i.e. the speed sensor ID on your road bike is different from your trainer bike, and you've properly paired your road bike sensors to your road bike profile, and your trainer bike speed sensor to your trainer bike profile), then PP will automatically switch from trainer mode On (in this example profile 2) to trainer mode Off (in this example profile 1, 3 or 4) automatically.

As long as you are careful to use only one profile for indoor training (that is, you use the "Trainer On" command only with the same, single profile number) your problem should disappear.

Velocomp · Post by **Velocomp** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:52 pm

fishyweb wrote:
Velocomp wrote:If you are using the same bike for indoor AND outdoor rides, then you should have only one profile. When you switch from indoor to outdoor mode using Isaac, your single profile will "memorize" the setting most recently used. Effectively, your suggestion is already implemented for this scenario.

If you are using a different bike for indoor and outdoor rides (each bike with its own, unique speed sensor), then there should be two profiles:

1) Your "indoor" profile, where indoor mode is set to "on"

2) Your "outdoor" bike profile, where indoor mode is set to "off"

With two bikes, two profiles, and two unique speed sensors, PP will "automatically" switch to the correct profile for the day's ride, and automatically turn trainer mode on and off (no Isaac needed). To us, this seems very intuitive.

If we implement the proposal, the user will be forced to use Isaac to turn indoor mode on/off, even when the profile is automatically switched. This seems a step in the wrong direction, but perhaps I am missing something here...
OK, I can see where you are coming from, but my scenario is different. I have one bike that I use for both indoor and outdoor riding (on profile 1), and another bike that I only use outside (on profile 2, with different sensor). So when I have been using bike 2, and then want to switch to bike 1 for my next ride, I have to try to remember how I had PP set the last time I used bike 1 to figure whether I need to switch modes for profile 1. I'm not sure whether that makes me unusual, but I guess it is not unique as others have run into this issue as well.

Do the following:

1) Connect PP to Isaac

2) Go to "Device/Set Active Profile in Device"

3) Select Profile 2

4) Go to "Device/Turn Off Trainer Mode". You will get a confirming message that trainer mode is off (in profile 2). Whenever you select profile 2, you will be in "outdoor" mode

5) When you're using bike 1, use Isaac to select profile 1.

6) After making sure that Profile 1 is active, use the Turn Trainer Mode command to turn indoor training on/off (as you desire).

7) For profile 1 only, until you manually change profile 1 settings with Isaac, your PP profile 1 trainer setting will remain in On (or off) until you change it.

8) Whenever you switch to profile 2, trainer will automatically be turned off.

nicholp1 · Post by **nicholp1** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:56 pm

So to be clear, are you saying that Turbo Train Mode operates at a profile level and not at a device level?

If that is the case and given my multi bike setup I should never have to use the toggle feature in Isaac.. ?

I'll give it a try this week..

Velocomp · Post by **Velocomp** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:03 pm

I'm not sure what "turbo train mode" means.

What I am saying is this:

1) PP has four profiles in it

2) Each profile memorizes the information that was given while it was active.

3) When you set up your indoor trainer, PP was active in one of the four profiles (I don't know which profile was active)

4) For the active profile used when you set up your indoor trainer, when you set Trainer On, PP memorized the trainer on setting for the profile that was active, and only the active profile

Follow the steps in a previous post, to make sure that Trainer Off is stored in all four of your profiles. Then, set Trainer On ONLY in the profile you want to use for indoor training.

Whenever you're using a profile other than the one used for indoor training, Trainer will be off.

Bob C · Post by **Bob C** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:49 am

Thanks, everybody, for contributing to the solution of this puzzle.

So it seems that if you also change profiles, then the order does matter. First, activate correct profile. THEN, trainer (aka turbo) off or on.

Also seems reasonable that in future versions of Isaac the trainer (on or off) parameter could be visible in the Edit Profile window (like weight, wheel circumference, etc), and toggled there rather than in the pull-down Device menu, where it misleads unless you already know it’s a profile parameter rather than an independent state of the device. Maybe that was implicit in malcom’s post.

It does not quite follow that if you use only one bike both outdoor and on trainer there is only one profile, and hence no problem. I use one bike outdoor and on trainer. But I change the back wheel so as not to wear out my (slightly bigger) outside tire on the trainer. So I do need two profiles. (Now if only the firmware could smell the wheel change as it does a sensor change and switch over for me . . .

If I follow John correctly, and if I set up my two profiles as he says, then changing between indoors and out thereafter is just one step, not two: I let the device know which profile is active before this ride and it will take care of setting Trainer Mode on or off for me. Anyhow, that’s what I’m gonna try out this week.

I don’t know if it will work for everyone, but I’ll repeat my hack for knowing which mode PP is in away from computer, which I do before I’m far from my house: go up a hill, or sprint. If the watts jump up, Trainer Mode is off; if they creep up, proportional only to speed, it’s on, and my file will be wrong.

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